Author Topic: MvP cards in WoE  (Read 788 times)

MaggieS

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2020, 01:13:40 AM »
I totally disagree. It took me a while to get my mvps cards and I want to use them. What is the purpose of having mvps and not being able to use them? Don't tell me it's for pve, because for pve I don't need them at all.



I'd like everyone's opinions on this, and please have an open mind about this with the betterment of the server in mind rather than your own fun of using mvp cards.

We got mvp cards we wanna use too man. Try to keep an open mind about this and join in on the discussion.



As for the 2nd WoE day, I feel like that would really help the people who aren't able to make saturday's woe time as well.
I'm just saying my opinion, but obviously you don't like it

In my estimation, anything resembling the acceptance of MVP cards in WoE is a terrible mistake. Here's my humble opinion.

- The PvP balance system is not made to acknowledge MVP cards.
(e.g. Maya Purple renders Thief class obsolete)
(e.g. Golden Thief Bug renders Mage class obsolete)
I won't get into an exhaustive list of what literally renders the game more unplayable than it actually is, but thing is, I could.

- MVP cards' drop rates are too high
(Considering the mere fact that MVP cards are the same rate as standard cards, which is pure madness, it is only a matter of time before you get obscene numbers of MVP cards. Therefore, it would make the game into a casino, where you have to guess what your opponent has equipped instead of playing the game.)
---------

@MaggieS
The mere fact that it took you a ''while'' is comical. MVP cards should be acquired with extreme luck which is only created by endless years of farming. As stated above, I urge you to think of the few coming weeks. When you will cast your favorite skill on someone, Azura Strike, you will be left gobsmacked because your entire gimmick is rendered useless by 1 card, which is either Ghostring OR Deviling if you hadn't thought this through. What about Tao Gunka? Making once again, not only the Paladin impervious to your damage but rendering any Devoed target invincible to your damage. My exemplification is only a means to make you realize the only thing between your acceptance of the removal of MVP cards and your current state, is TIME.

My point? I do not wish for the beautiful people of this server, who have invested their precious time into this server, to be dominated by RNG. The time you invested in farming MVP cards is nothing compared to the compounded time the rest of the non-MVP wearers have invested in farming their ''basic'' PvP gear.
----------

Concluding, I think it is incredibly inconsiderate to even consider leaving MVP cards into the main event of the server any longer. It will lead to discouragement and unfairness. The game is incredibly well made and balanced to be played without the MVP cards in the first place. It is incredibly more satisfying to win a GvG based on skill, preparation, and communication rather than a race to arms for MVP cards. The server, as stated previously, cannot hold the War of Emperium in two castles a week. With the current population, it will cause divide and will lead guilds to choose which event is more tailored to their playstyle/schedule. I believe that the server has the potential to lead to a great story of guild rivalry which could propel this server to greatness. However, leaving MVP cards in WoE is the main way this server will slowly regress from its current state. What is the real late game of Ragnarok Online? PvP. Do not squander the main event of the game by surrendering to: ''I got it first it's mine'' primate instincts. How people are able to reconciliate their MVP card drops is up to the server's brainstorming capabilities. However, I believe Battlegrounds should be more rewarding in order to make MVP cards usable in a different PvP context that is not as punishing as WoE. In other words, consider enabling MVP cards in Battlegrounds to alleviate the transition while instilling more appropriate rewards into the currently dead BG system appears satisfactory to me.

Feel free to disregard what I contributed. After all, it is only my opinion.

Cheers,

Mesm.


You can fully equip yourself in several days, don't talk nonsense. MVPs can be obtained quickly or take weeks.
I agree, the drop of the mvp is high. 2 months ago I had posted about nerfing the golden thief bug card and nobody wanted, so then I got it. And now you all come with this. Well have fun on your woe without mvps. Good luck.

Physicx

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2020, 02:15:01 AM »
I totally disagree. It took me a while to get my mvps cards and I want to use them. What is the purpose of having mvps and not being able to use them? Don't tell me it's for pve, because for pve I don't need them at all.



I'd like everyone's opinions on this, and please have an open mind about this with the betterment of the server in mind rather than your own fun of using mvp cards.

We got mvp cards we wanna use too man. Try to keep an open mind about this and join in on the discussion.



As for the 2nd WoE day, I feel like that would really help the people who aren't able to make saturday's woe time as well.
I'm just saying my opinion, but obviously you don't like it

In my estimation, anything resembling the acceptance of MVP cards in WoE is a terrible mistake. Here's my humble opinion.

- The PvP balance system is not made to acknowledge MVP cards.
(e.g. Maya Purple renders Thief class obsolete)
(e.g. Golden Thief Bug renders Mage class obsolete)
I won't get into an exhaustive list of what literally renders the game more unplayable than it actually is, but thing is, I could.

- MVP cards' drop rates are too high
(Considering the mere fact that MVP cards are the same rate as standard cards, which is pure madness, it is only a matter of time before you get obscene numbers of MVP cards. Therefore, it would make the game into a casino, where you have to guess what your opponent has equipped instead of playing the game.)
---------

@MaggieS
The mere fact that it took you a ''while'' is comical. MVP cards should be acquired with extreme luck which is only created by endless years of farming. As stated above, I urge you to think of the few coming weeks. When you will cast your favorite skill on someone, Azura Strike, you will be left gobsmacked because your entire gimmick is rendered useless by 1 card, which is either Ghostring OR Deviling if you hadn't thought this through. What about Tao Gunka? Making once again, not only the Paladin impervious to your damage but rendering any Devoed target invincible to your damage. My exemplification is only a means to make you realize the only thing between your acceptance of the removal of MVP cards and your current state, is TIME.

My point? I do not wish for the beautiful people of this server, who have invested their precious time into this server, to be dominated by RNG. The time you invested in farming MVP cards is nothing compared to the compounded time the rest of the non-MVP wearers have invested in farming their ''basic'' PvP gear.
----------

Concluding, I think it is incredibly inconsiderate to even consider leaving MVP cards into the main event of the server any longer. It will lead to discouragement and unfairness. The game is incredibly well made and balanced to be played without the MVP cards in the first place. It is incredibly more satisfying to win a GvG based on skill, preparation, and communication rather than a race to arms for MVP cards. The server, as stated previously, cannot hold the War of Emperium in two castles a week. With the current population, it will cause divide and will lead guilds to choose which event is more tailored to their playstyle/schedule. I believe that the server has the potential to lead to a great story of guild rivalry which could propel this server to greatness. However, leaving MVP cards in WoE is the main way this server will slowly regress from its current state. What is the real late game of Ragnarok Online? PvP. Do not squander the main event of the game by surrendering to: ''I got it first it's mine'' primate instincts. How people are able to reconciliate their MVP card drops is up to the server's brainstorming capabilities. However, I believe Battlegrounds should be more rewarding in order to make MVP cards usable in a different PvP context that is not as punishing as WoE. In other words, consider enabling MVP cards in Battlegrounds to alleviate the transition while instilling more appropriate rewards into the currently dead BG system appears satisfactory to me.

Feel free to disregard what I contributed. After all, it is only my opinion.

Cheers,

Mesm.


You can fully equip yourself in several days, don't talk nonsense. MVPs can be obtained quickly or take weeks.
I agree, the drop of the mvp is high. 2 months ago I had posted about nerfing the golden thief bug card and nobody wanted, so then I got it. And now you all come with this. Well have fun on your woe without mvps. Good luck.

I never said I didn't like your opinion. I actually value it dearly and I appreciate you put in your two cents about it. Me and my guild uses MVP cards too you know. I'm trying to think about the future of the server as a whole in terms of its relation of how easy it is to get mvp cards here vs their common usage in woe.


Also I don't know what you mean by "have fun on your woe without mvps". This is still in discussion and nothing has been implemented or approved yet.

Mesm

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2020, 09:40:57 AM »
What is highly ironic is you imploring that you don't want your time invested in MVP farming to be wasted while you did not even know if MVP cards were going to be allowed in WoE in the first place.

Feel free to continue with your current tune and let time do its thing. A few Ghostrings will change your opinion real quick.

Anybody else have ideas?

Simone

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2020, 11:28:49 AM »
Hi everyone! Thank you so much for your input. ♥

So after reading the replies and consulting with the staff, we've come to the decision to add a restricted WoE session (without MvP & Mini-Boss cards, in a different castle) beside the session we already have. In theory it'd be the ideal solution for both those worried about Boss cards dominating the scene, as well as to those currently in the possession of Boss cards and wanting to use them in WoE. Both opinions being completely justified.

Now we're a bit on the fence when the restricted session should commence.  We could schedule it on a regular week day like a Wednesday, but that entails the time won't be very favorable for the EU & US time-zones (unless we want to schedule it at/around the same time as the current Saturday session, but two sessions with the same time? Does not seem too appealing). The obvious alternative would be to have it schedule on a Sunday, since everyone could be available then (or make an exception to be), however that unfortunately brings us to the following concern; two sessions in 2 days time, is that a good idea?

What say you about the above scenarios? Or maybe you have an better idea that we haven't thought about yet?

Please let us know. We're looking to gather as many feedback as possible so please ask your friends and guild mates to reply to this post so that we may come to a desirable accord together!

Katt

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2020, 06:31:05 PM »
-1
I don't think we need 2 castles with current population of the server. It's empty enough as is.

Jira

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2020, 06:50:04 PM »
-1
I don't think we need 2 castles with current population of the server. It's empty enough as is.

As mentioned before; this would be a second session in a different castle. Both castles won't be open at the same time.  ;)

Katt

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2020, 06:52:20 PM »
I still think it will split the server into 2 woes with less participation on each.

Rinsanity

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2020, 09:34:00 PM »
+1 to having restricted WoE since both castles won't be open at the same time

Lavenblade

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2020, 09:35:07 PM »
I do not think it should be on a Sunday. Besides me personally not being available, it's too close to Saturday's WoE. I much prefer a Wednesday at the same time. However, a different time would work as well. That allows ~3 days between each WoE, and would space out server population spikes evenly throughout the week. Hopefully this promotes more activity after WoE ends as well. This would be a great way to try and boost the servers activity level.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 09:46:41 PM by Lavenblade »

Simone

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2020, 09:41:47 AM »
I do not think it should be on a Sunday. Besides me personally not being available, it's too close to Saturday's WoE. I much prefer a Wednesday at the same time. However, a different time would work as well. That allows ~3 days between each WoE, and would space out server population spikes evenly throughout the week. Hopefully this promotes more activity after WoE ends as well. This would be a great way to try and boost the servers activity level.

I agree with this, encouraging some week day activity is a lot more appealing than packing all our special events in the weekend and then having 5 days of nothing to follow after.

The time would be a problem for the majority of the current population, regardless. Because we'd want the second WoE session to be at least 6 hours apart from the current Saturday session. Most likely 6 +/- hours earlier rather than later, which unfortunately means for the USA player base that the Wednesday session would be difficult to attend. On the bright side however, it would be favorable for the players from the SEA and similar time-zones which should not go neglected either.   Contemplating out loud...

emcrty

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2020, 12:36:13 PM »
A WOE without mvp AND mini-boss cards?

Maybe the Admins should re-assess their decision on restricting mini-boss cards aswell.

That would mean the complete overhaul of some players builds just to competitively participate in that particular WOE setup.

Just a quick example, Toad is Mini-boss card.

Physicx

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2020, 03:53:02 AM »
Agreed with emcrty. Making stuff like Toad 40% makes it pretty much a necessity in WoE. I would prefer to have just MVP cards disabled rather than both mvp and miniboss/minimvp cards. Which is what the original topic is about.

Simone

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2020, 04:45:55 AM »
We haven't discussed as in-depth with the staff yet so nothing is set in stone at this point. But that does make me wonder; Mini-Boss cards are favored to remain available by our players? From my understanding when reading #main chat two WoE sessions ago, one of the cards that has been declared displeasing/imbalanced in the scene was Ghostring, which is a Mini-Boss card.

Needless to say, we're not going to make any decisions that the players do not like, but the only way to ensure that isn't going to happen if we get as much feedback as possible. So, keep elaborating. ~

MaggieS

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2020, 07:52:06 AM »
Watching the video of the last woe (I could not play), it is shown that it is not necessary to remove the mvp cards from WoE. People with a few equipments, compared to many others, have easily won, probably without any mvp card.


lkjqwe

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Re: MvP cards in WoE
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2020, 04:58:06 PM »
Watching the video of the last woe (I could not play), it is shown that it is not necessary to remove the mvp cards from WoE. People with a few equipments, compared to many others, have easily won, probably without any mvp card.
Certain MVP cards are absolutely busted and way overpowered.  We won because you guys didn't coordinate or play as a team or use your gear correctly not because MVP cards are balanced.

I'd like to see a second WoE time.  I'm not in favor of restricting MVP cards in one WoE and then leaving them unrestricted in another.  It's not intuitive and will probably lead to differing levels of participation (not to mention simply unslotting your MVP gear and putting in other cards is not simple/cheap here).  I'm in favor of either addressing problem cards individually and/or creating a system that prevents people from getting absolutely stacked with busted combinations.  As others have stated -- with the rates it isn't a matter of IF someone gets the correct combination of cards, it's a matter of WHEN on this server.  When that happens, the only response is to either quit the server or withdraw from WoE until you have something to match.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 05:09:26 PM by lkjqwe »